Posted by Marco Polo on November 21, 2007 at 00:35:30:

In Reply to: Re: Need help and advice please posted by Bird Watcher on November 20, 2007 at 09:26:22:

BirdWatcher,

First, sincerely, I’m glad that you have found a way to decrease your AHI, but in the same line you’re backpedaling from your original statement.

“CPAP works to cover up sleep apnea and make your body sleep better, but the best alternative to the whole situation is to completely reform what you eat on a daily basis and start getting regular exercise. Doing these things can cure apnea. Period. No need for CPAP. Not mentioned here on this forum too often, but it's the truth. People have changed their diets and lifestyles and gotten over sleep apnea.”

When you write, “Doing these things can cure apnea. Period. No need for CPAP.” This is a blanket statement about diet and exercise being the “cure-all” for OSA. You're stating it as fact--not opinion. There is no other way to interpret it. With this statement, I was expecting a story about how you’ve been dieting and exercising for a year or two and are completely CPAP-free now bcoz of it. Now, it’s just a reduction of your AHI which is good, again—whatever helps alleviate the problem is good, but this may not work for everyone.

Remember I stated that I WAS a vegetarian. There’s a reason for that. I found that by eating several pieces of fruit for lunch caused my glucose to rise too high. My glucose rose too high bcoz I was “pre-diabetic”. I was pre-diabetic bcoz I suffered from sleep apnea. I was a vegetarian for 6 months to a year. That was some time ago. When I incorporated some protein into my diet, my glucose levels evened out more easily, and I didn’t have the wicked highs and lows. I was at the “perfectly accepted” body weight for my build at that time as well.

Here are some other statements you’ve made throughout this thread that have me (and maybe some others) concerned:

“Untreated sleep apnea can lead to bankruptcy from medical bills or a shortened life span.”

I used to be a loan originator and I have read MANY a credit report, and I have NEVER seen a person go into bankruptcy for medical bills only. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it is EXTREMELY unlikely. It’s always credit card bills, mortgage payment, or vehicle payments PLUS medical bills that are included in the bankruptcy. Nowadays, hospitals and other facilities may work out payment plans to where you can pay $10-25/month on $50,000 and higher. My doctor did it for me—I didn’t owe but $1,000 at most though.

One of my doctors treated me for free until I got on insurance. When that went away due to the owner closing shop without notice, my doctor went back to treating me for free This doctor happens to be my Pulmonologist (sleep doctor). If your diet is as powerful as you claim it is—he would have told me about it by now. He has a waiting list of people wanting his expertise and he chooses to treat a quite a number of patients for free. AND provide them with free masks that he pays out of his pocket for. I actually KNOW my sleep doctor—we talk when I visit. It’s not your ordinary “in and out” visit.

I have friends who were indigent at the time of their need for service from hospitals and doctors, and literally $80,000 was wiped away as “good will”. “Good will” is in the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles aka GAAP (pronounced gap).

“CPAP doesn't train the body to keep the airway open after any length of time and only makes the condition worse if the person continues to ignor the condition of their airway closing.”

CPAP isn’t meant to train the body to do anything. It is an internal pressure splint in a manner of speaking. The pressurized air from the CPAP is holding the upper airway open so that one can breathe normally. Similar to someone holding a self-closing door open for you at the corner market. You’re free to come and go as you please while the door is held open for you, but if the door should shut and you don’t have the wherewithal to open it yourself (in this instance you’re sleeping and cannot open the upper airway), then you’re going to have a hard time going through the doorway. As a matter of fact, you can’t go through the doorway (you’ve stopped breathing).

“How many who get on CPAP need pressure increases down the road??? Next to everyone.”

That may be the consensus of writers of the people on these forums, but I can hardly say that it is fair to ascribe that to the millions of Americans, Britons, and Australians who suffer from OSA. My pressure has decreased over the years.

Besides, a pressure increase is not indicative of the condition worsening. MY pressure went down and my AHI post-CPAP went down as well from near 5 to 3.2 on average. Now? I have gained weight and pre-CPAP AHI levels went from 14.7 in 2000 to 82 in 2006. CPAP has nothing to do with whether the condition of OSA betters or worsens. The neglect of the cause of the airway closing MAY make the condition worse, but CPAP therapy itself doesn’t make the OSA better or worse.

“The disorder is defined as AHI of above 5 per hour by some in the medical field, some say higher than 15. So the truth is that the human body can have an apnea or two during a night's sleep and this is completely normal.”

Actually if you go by the 15 figure, you’re totally incorrect, and going by the 5 figure, you’re still incorrect. The Autonomic System regulates BREATHING during sleep among various other essential bodily functions—heart rate, and so forth. The body is DESIGNED for regular respiration at night without interference—meaning the body is designed to take in oxygen through the normal process of breathing at night. The closing of the upper airway obstructs the body’s ability to take in oxygen properly. The stopping of autonomically regulated breathing at night during sleep is TOTALLY ABnormal to the body’s design and intent. Unless you train yourself to hold your breath and discipline your body to accept less oxygen for whatever water sport is of your particular liking, the body wants and needs to breathe regularly and without obstruction.

I will agree that there are ACCEPTED ABNORMALITES within certain “medically accepted” tolerances. That’s what the above definition of OSA is.

“Isn't it a bit strange that persons with sleep breating disorders breathe just fine during the day?”

No, not at all. It is perfectly normal to breathe fine during the day--especially when the direction of the opened airway is parallel to the upright position and theoretically plumb when standing or sitting straight. SDB patients with OSA don’t have the luxury of an opened airway when lying in the supine position, or on their sides, or on their stomach.

“Eating a better diet and exercising will reduce AHI.”

Just to be on the safe side, I’d say “may” instead of “will”.

BirdWatcher, I don’t have any problem with people expressing opinions on forums like this, but when terminology like “it’s the truth”, or “but its true” or the like is used in postings, those are statements of fact—not statements of opinion. As you say in this last posting, “But I read and observe and have my opinions.” Opinions and personal experience are fine—just state that in your posts. I did not ascertain that from your first/second response in this thread.

You’re right; I don’t come around these forums much anymore. I post very little anymore. I do want to help people, but I find that there are regulars who do just as well without me adding my nuances to their posts. I am a stickler for logical arguments and facts versus opinion though.

I understand the regulars telling newbies to search for their particular problem or query, but most newbies don’t know the terminology—don’t know what to ask for—and some have even been discouraged by their doctor or DME NOT to seek any information from the internet. One of my DME techs told me flat out, “you can’t trust what’s on the internet”. And, “You’re not supposed to know that.” I may take the time to answer a newbie question that the regulars have seen ad infinitum.

To be honest with you, I take a look at the forums every 2-3 months (maybe monthly) now bcoz, quite frankly, I have a good handle on my therapy. I like to stay current though, and I’ll post every once in a while.

A last suggestion if you will, if your diet & exercise routine is doing service to you and may benefit others then log it for a week or two or even a month. Post it here if you think it would benefit someone else, or better yet, write a book with recipes and so forth and make a little money at it. You won’t have to be the poor single tech guy anymore.

If someone benefits from it to where they don’t have to put on a mask anymore at night—KUDOS my brother! KUDOS!!!

Follow Ups:

• Re: Need help and advice please Bird Watcher 16:47 11/26/07 (0)

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